• DST in BC

    From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to Al on Sun Mar 29 10:18:00 2026
    Hello Al!

    ** On Sunday 29.03.26 - 03:08, Al wrote to Avon:

    soon to put the clocks back an hour at the end of the coming week.

    We just sprung ahead a couple weeks ago. I hear that here in BC we are going to stick with daylight saving time and are not going to be switching back and forth anymore. I welcome that news.

    Seems to me that permanent DST is going to make waking up in the winter brutal with darkness at least until 8a.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.



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  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Ogg on Sun Mar 29 09:23:35 2026
    Re: DST in BC
    By: Ogg to Al on Sun Mar 29 2026 10:18 am

    Seems to me that permanent DST is going to make waking up in the winter brutal with darkness at least until 8a.
    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    The thing that kills me about this is, is that it's not like the science isn't or wasn't known in "recent" years. Choices like these that are made as a political distraction are so disheartening.

    That said, I will take permanent DST over the bloody time changes, but I hope we can move foward with fixing this to permanent standard time at some point.
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  • From Al@21:4/106 to Ogg on Sun Mar 29 10:41:12 2026
    soon to put the clocks back an hour at the end of the coming week.

    We just sprung ahead a couple weeks ago. I hear that here in BC we are
    going to stick with daylight saving time and are not going to be switching >> back and forth anymore. I welcome that news.

    Seems to me that permanent DST is going to make waking up in the winter brutal with darkness at least until 8a.

    That 7am darkness is a real thing. Even so, I don't want to manipulate the clocks.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    Did they give a reason why this is a bad choice?

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  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to Ogg on Sun Mar 29 23:12:40 2026

    We just sprung ahead a couple weeks ago. I hear that here in BC we are going to stick with daylight saving time and are not going to be switching
    back and forth anymore. I welcome that news.

    Seems to me that permanent DST is going to make waking up in the winter brutal with darkness at least until 8a.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    Yeah I don't get that one. Then again, I have met people who actually believe that DST causes the Sun to stay out longer in the Summer and therefore likely believe it will do the same in Winter if DST is year-round. :O

    Trying to explain that it has to do with the tilt of the Earth's axis is met with blank stares.


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  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to Al on Sun Mar 29 23:32:36 2026

    That 7am darkness is a real thing. Even so, I don't want to manipulate the clocks.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    Did they give a reason why this is a bad choice?

    Sunlight in the morning is better for overall mental health.
    The Sun staying out later has no such affect.

    Here is a good video from a sleep researcher who has, in
    past, also been featured on PBS:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t017DRROWTQ

    I don't know about BC but the golf industry has been one
    of the main pushers for year-long DST in the US.


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  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Mike Powell on Sun Mar 29 20:26:54 2026

    Sunlight in the morning is better for overall mental health.
    The Sun staying out later has no such affect.

    Maybe for morning people. I would rather drive to work in the dark in the morning and have light later in the day.

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  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Exodus on Sun Mar 29 17:40:38 2026
    Re: Re: DST in BC
    By: Exodus to Mike Powell on Sun Mar 29 2026 08:26 pm

    Sunlight in the morning is better for overall mental health. The Sun
    staying out later has no such affect.
    Maybe for morning people. I would rather drive to work in the dark in the morning and have light later in the day.

    It's not about opinion or personal preference. It's always a good idea to go read up on what's actually been found in the studies.
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  • From The Wanderer@1:2320/106 to Exodus on Sun Mar 29 20:15:52 2026

    Sunlight in the morning is better for overall mental health.
    The Sun staying out later has no such affect.

    Maybe for morning people. I would rather drive to work in the dark
    in the morning and have light later in the day.

    ... Modem: A great deterrent to phone solicitors

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/106 to Exodus on Sun Mar 29 20:16:26 2026
    Sunlight in the morning is better for overall mental health.
    The Sun staying out later has no such affect.

    Maybe for morning people. I would rather drive to work in the dark
    in the morning and have light later in the day.

    That isn't my opinion. It is science's opinion.


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  • From Al@21:4/106 to Mike Powell on Sun Mar 29 23:11:30 2026
    That 7am darkness is a real thing. Even so, I don't want to manipulate the >> clocks.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    Did they give a reason why this is a bad choice?

    Sunlight in the morning is better for overall mental health.
    The Sun staying out later has no such affect.

    Since we have sprung ahead and the plan is to stay there, there will be that extra hour of (morning) sun.

    In any case I enjoy the morning sun even if I have to wait a bit.. :)

    Here is a good video from a sleep researcher who has, in
    past, also been featured on PBS:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t017DRROWTQ

    I'll check that out when I get to a youtubable machine.

    I don't know about BC but the golf industry has been one
    of the main pushers for year-long DST in the US.

    I was surprised by the announcement. Nobody was talking about it aside from the usual spring ahead and fall back grumbles, but I'll take it!

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Exodus on Mon Mar 30 07:09:18 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to Exodus <=-

    ... Modem: A great deterrent to phone solicitors

    I'm old enough to remember junk faxes.



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  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to Al on Mon Mar 30 11:57:00 2026
    Hello Al!

    ** On Sunday 29.03.26 - 10:41, Al wrote to Ogg:

    That 7am darkness is a real thing. Even so, I don't want to manipulate the clocks.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    Did they give a reason why this is a bad choice?

    Mostly with increased traffic of people driving to work in the still dark mornings will be cause for greater accidents, and sending kids off to school in the dark may not turn out to be too safe.


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  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to Mike Powell on Mon Mar 30 12:10:00 2026
    Hello Mike!

    ** On Sunday 29.03.26 - 23:12, Mike Powell wrote to Ogg:

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    Yeah I don't get that one. Then again, I have met people who actually believe that DST causes the Sun to stay out longer in the Summer and therefore likely believe it will do the same in Winter if DST is year-round. :O

    I've heard that one, but not often. I think it's meant to be more of a joke.


    Trying to explain that it has to do with the tilt of the Earth's axis is met with blank stares.

    Yeah.. that's getting too technical. Simpler to just illustrate the outcome by moving the hands of the clock. "Spring forward" = evenings are extended, morning hour is earlier. "Fall back" = evenings are cut short [darker earler], but mornings have earlier daylight.

    Standard time follows the sun more naturally, while daylight time shifts the clock so people get more usable daylight after work or school.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Ogg on Mon Mar 30 17:10:10 2026
    Seems to me that permanent DST is going to make waking up in the winter brutal with darkness at least until 8a.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    I wonder what the world would be like if it were aimed toward night owls, rather than morning larks.

    But, yeah, everyone hates changing the clocks (at least forward), but lots of people think it's unreasonable to be dark late into the morning, so we wind up with the compromise that most places wind up dealing with.

    I do wonder what the best solution would be, but have a hard time imagining that there'd be anything without a bunch of tradeoffs that make me uncertain about it.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to The Wanderer on Mon Mar 30 17:22:03 2026
    Sunlight in the morning is better for overall mental health. The Sun
    staying out later has no such affect.
    Maybe for morning people. I would rather drive to work in the dark i morning and have light later in the day.

    It's not about opinion or personal preference. It's always a good idea
    to go read up on what's actually been found in the studies.

    Could you point out a study name?

    What I'm finding are things about how morning sunlight helps set a circadian rhythm.

    But that's not a, "this is better if we would be permanently on standard time, versus permanently on DST".

    It's just, "if you get sunlight in the morning...".

    And, like with the thought of the world revolving around morning larks, not night owls, oftentimes the problem with being a night owl is that people expect you to wake up early. And that's not especially true about people expecting others to be awake and available at 8p, other than the occasional social call.

    Regardless, I'm happy to learn about the science, but would like to know what the science actually measured, and the level of evidence gained.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/106 to Ogg on Mon Mar 30 12:19:40 2026
    Yeah I don't get that one. Then again, I have met people who
    actually believe that DST causes the Sun to stay out longer in
    the Summer and therefore likely believe it will do the same in
    Winter if DST is year-round. :O

    I've heard that one, but not often. I think it's meant to be more
    of a joke.

    No, they were not joking and, no, I am not joking telling you that,
    which is where my next comment came into play....


    Trying to explain that it has to do with the tilt of the
    Earth's axis is met with blank stares.

    Yeah.. that's getting too technical. Simpler to just illustrate
    the outcome by moving the hands of the clock. "Spring forward" =
    evenings are extended, morning hour is earlier. "Fall back" =
    evenings are cut short [darker earler], but mornings have earlier daylight.

    They understand how the clock works. They do *not* understand that
    the Sun is going to do what it is going to do regardless of whether
    or not the clock moves, i.e. they believe that if we don't move the
    clock, the Sun will be out fewer total hours per day... not fewer
    hours after work, but fewer *total* hours.

    Trying to explain that will get blank stares from many, which is why
    you cannot really expect the public to vote on something like that
    because there are too many who didn't learn basic science and will
    never comprehend how it works.


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  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to Adept on Mon Mar 30 14:37:00 2026
    Hello Adept!

    ** On Monday 30.03.26 - 17:10, Adept wrote to Ogg:

    I wonder what the world would be like if it were aimed toward night owls, rather than morning larks.

    I think we would have more sick people. Lack of vitamin D production in our bodies and all that.


    But, yeah, everyone hates changing the clocks (at least forward), but lots of people think it's unreasonable to be dark late into the morning, so we wind up with the compromise that most places wind up dealing with.

    Maybe a global agreement to adjust somewhere in the middle with 30 minutes?

    :D


    I do wonder what the best solution would be, but have a hard time
    imagining that there'd be anything without a bunch of tradeoffs that make me uncertain about it.

    30 minutes, and permanent.


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  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to Adept on Mon Mar 30 14:40:00 2026
    Hello Adept!

    ** On Monday 30.03.26 - 17:22, Adept wrote to The Wanderer:

    Could you point out a study name?

    A starting point..

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/here-s-why-sleep-experts-think-we-should- abolish-daylight-saving-time-9.6960740

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7302868/


    What I'm finding are things about how morning sunlight helps set a circadian rhythm.

    [...]

    It's just, "if you get sunlight in the morning...".

    Yes.. that's natural for us. Messing around with that with artificial time- forward and back, is counter to that.


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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Mon Mar 30 14:30:44 2026
    ... Modem: A great deterrent to phone solicitors

    I'm old enough to remember junk faxes.

    Oh yeah I had forgotten those. :D


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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to ADEPT on Mon Mar 30 14:30:44 2026
    Seems to me that permanent DST is going to make waking up in the winter brutal with darkness at least until 8a.

    Even "experts" agree that was a bad choice.

    I wonder what the world would be like if it were aimed toward night owls, rather than morning larks.

    With DST it *is* aimed towards night owls. Those of us who like to get to
    work early, thanks to DST, are doing it in the dark. Morning larks like
    US farmers do not like DST.

    Ben Franklin originally suggested something like DST as a joke... he was in France and got tired of people showing up late in the mornings and not
    keeping regular hours... i.e not being morning people, so he jokingly
    suggested the French should move their clocks ahead.

    Two of the early advocates of DST were an Aussie bug collector and a
    British golfer... both wanted more time at night for their hobbies. They didn't want to be morning people and get up earlier to accomplish this.

    Since then, several US industries have successfully advocated for
    lengthening the number of weeks the US stays on DST so that evening/night people will be out spending more money.

    So those of us who are morning people are left accomodating those who are
    not. DST is very much an evening/night person oriented thing.


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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to ADEPT on Mon Mar 30 14:30:44 2026
    Could you point out a study name?

    What I'm finding are things about how morning sunlight helps set a circadian rhythm.

    But that's not a, "this is better if we would be permanently on standard time,
    versus permanently on DST".

    It's just, "if you get sunlight in the morning...".

    Watch the video I posted from the sleep researcher. Things that mess with
    your circadian rhythms affect your health in negative ways. She explains
    it well, and explains the negative affects that DST has on it.


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  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Adept on Mon Mar 30 12:34:09 2026
    Re: Re: DST in BC
    By: Adept to The Wanderer on Mon Mar 30 2026 05:22 pm

    It's not about opinion or personal preference. It's always a good idea to
    go read up on what's actually been found in the studies.
    Could you point out a study name?

    As I'm not a doctor, I generally don't read the studies, but what experts have to say about them. Grab a few search engines and look for "why is standard time healthier than daylight savings time", you should find what you're looking for.

    What I'm finding are things about how morning sunlight helps set a circadian rhythm.
    But that's not a, "this is better if we would be permanently on standard time, versus permanently on DST".

    When the results seem to boil down to that the standard time circadian rhythm is more aligned and healthier for us, I think it's made that argument.

    And, like with the thought of the world revolving around morning larks, not night owls, oftentimes the problem with being a night owl is that people expect you to wake up early. And that's not especially true about people expecting others to be awake and available at 8p, other than the occasional social call.

    But that's outside of the scope of the issue - in that, regardless of time switching at all, permanent DST or standard, not being aligned with daytime is hard on most people, and certainly not the norm. When looking for 'the best' system, it's not going to necessarily be the best for every single individual, but for the majority.

    And to reiterate - I'm super happy and supportive of no longer having the time change, and just hope we can go with the healthiest option before too long.
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  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to The Wanderer on Mon Mar 30 21:07:52 2026

    And to reiterate - I'm super happy and supportive of no longer having the time change, and just hope we can go with the healthiest option before too long.

    Back during the oil/energy crisis in the early 1970s (1973 to be exact) the US decided to go to year-round DST. It was supposed to be a two-year experiment that ran from January 1974 to January 1976. In December 1973, nearly 80% of Americans supported the change. By April 1974, as people realized what DST did to the limited sunlight of Winter, that support dropped below 50%. After a few more months of falling support, in August Bob Dole -- I knew there was a reason I liked him! -- introduced an amendment to the 1973 law that called for the experiment to end. It passed and, in October 1973, around the time we'd normally go back to Standard Time, the experiment ended.

    So a 2-year experiment was initially very popular but quickly became very unpopular and lasted only 10 months.

    Maybe you will get lucky and something similar -- in your case, realizing Standard Time is better -- will happen there, too. If your politicians are anything like ours, I wouldn't hold my breath but I might cross my fingers.



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  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Mike Powell on Mon Mar 30 20:21:17 2026
    Re: Re: DST in BC
    By: Mike Powell to The Wanderer on Mon Mar 30 2026 09:07 pm

    So a 2-year experiment was initially very popular but quickly became very unpopular and lasted only 10 months.

    That's interesting, that's one story I don't think I'd heard about yet.

    Maybe you will get lucky and something similar -- in your case, realizing Standard Time is better -- will happen there, too. If your politicians are anything like ours, I wouldn't hold my breath but I might cross my fingers.

    Here's hoping, to be sure. Unfortunately our politicians could well switch back if it proves to be too unpopular. One tiny bit of hope is that we do/did have a few places in the province that didn't observe DST prior to our current change, so maybe, just maybe, we have some voices here already that can preach the benefits of not changing.

    Let's check in in 10 months! heh
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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Dumas Walker on Tue Mar 31 08:58:48 2026
    Watch the video I posted from the sleep researcher. Things that mess
    with your circadian rhythms affect your health in negative ways. She explains it well, and explains the negative affects that DST has on it.

    I will probably not watch a suggested video, because that's reliably homework and not interesting enough to sustain me as I wait for them to get to their point.

    That said, I'm wondering about permanent DST versus permanent standard time. The negative effects from springing forward have been well-documented, I believe. And is easy to understand, when people suffer through getting up an hour earlier.

    If she's pointing to something with negative effects of DST a month after the time change, that would make it more compelling for what I'm wondering.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to The Wanderer on Tue Mar 31 09:10:48 2026
    "why is standard time healthier than daylight savings time", you should find what you're looking for.

    Thanks, as, yeah, that got me closer.

    And, what I'm drawing from what I've read so far:
    1) Switching back and forth is the worst option (other options being permanent standard time or DST)
    2) For most people, standard time would be better.
    3) Most people is not all, thus the night owl point
    4) Some of the negative side effects might be more about society forcing people out of their normal sleep cycles, but hard to test that.

    So far, I'm finding the reasoning and evidence fairly compelling, but that various people would suffer under any option. And there's still plenty of squishiness to the evidence.

    Honestly, having learned that the natural human circadian rhythm is 24 hours 16 minutes (I'm assuming with a decent amount of variance), I do wonder what would happen if we made the "day" 24 hours and 15 minutes long, "falling back" 15 minutes a day.

    Obviously, that doesn't work for farmers, but most of us aren't farmers, and farmers should be doing things based on the sun / seasons / etc., regardless.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Mike Powell on Tue Mar 31 09:15:10 2026
    Trying to explain that will get blank stares from many, which is why
    you cannot really expect the public to vote on something like that
    because there are too many who didn't learn basic science and will
    never comprehend how it works.

    This reminds me of when I celebrate when sunset is no longer getting earlier, which happens a few weeks before the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere.

    And I've looked up the reasons why, and did a decent explainer on it, because it takes a _lot_ to get people to wrap their minds around how this works, rather than, "the shortest day of the year has the earliest sunset".

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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to ADEPT on Tue Mar 31 11:37:44 2026
    That said, I'm wondering about permanent DST versus permanent standard time. The negative effects from springing forward have been well-documented, I believe. And is easy to understand, when people suffer through getting up an hour earlier.

    If she's pointing to something with negative effects of DST a month after the time change, that would make it more compelling for what I'm wondering.

    She touches on both. There are the immediate affects... more car crashes, heart attacks, and work place injuries... and there are also the
    longer-term affects of messing up the body's circadian rhythms throughout
    the DST period.


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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to ADEPT on Tue Mar 31 11:37:44 2026
    This reminds me of when I celebrate when sunset is no longer getting earlier, which happens a few weeks before the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere.

    And I've looked up the reasons why, and did a decent explainer on it, because it takes a _lot_ to get people to wrap their minds around how this works, rather than, "the shortest day of the year has the earliest sunset".

    I have forgotten now exactly what causes this, but I did learn it at some
    point and realize it happens. I did take classes, like Meteorology and Astronomy, that many probably don't.


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